Today, leaders of the political parties represented in the Finnish parliament signed a statement against racism and committing their respective parties to fight racism wherever it occurs and to have a zero tolerance attitude towards any instance of racism. The leaders of all the parties committed themselves to this iniative, which originated from the Swedish People’s Party (SFP). All the leaders, except Timo Soini (pictured) of the so-called ‘True Finns’ party (Perusuomalaiset).
This rather confirms that the ‘True Finns’ are quite happy, even proud, to have openly racist candidates and opinions within their party, which is a sad development for Finnish politics. There again, perhaps one should have not expected anything else from this particular party. Where questions absolutely must be asked, however, is to the Christian Democrats. The Christian Democrats have entered into an electoral alliance with the ‘True Finns’ for June’s European parliamentary election. This effectively means that a vote for the Christian Democrats is a vote for the ‘True Finns’. I wonder what the voters of the Christian Democrats think to their votes going towards helping to elect racists. Swedish-speaking Christian Democrat supporters will also want to question as to whether they can stomach potentially helping to support electoral gains by a party openly hostitle to the Swedish-language and minorities in general. The Christian Democrat leadership ought to be embarrased by this bed-shearing with the discriminative ‘True Finns’. Let’s hope they still find time to redeem themselves and reject this electoral alliance in which they so clearly sacrifice their principles by enterting into.
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Thursday 16.4.09 at 20:14
Buji
Svenskfinland in English – proud to distort facts.
Thursday 16.4.09 at 20:56
Jonas
Can you explain how? It’s quite clear: Soini has refused to sign up. All the other parties have. The text does not contain anything particularly controversial – it’s just clear that signatories to the document are against racism and intolerance. So, why does Soini not sign? One must assume that he must wish to continue to tolerate racism and intolerance amongst his party’s membership and candidates.
Thursday 16.4.09 at 21:13
Enrique
It is a sad moment that the PS does not take a more vociferous stand against racism. But hey, as you mentioned, the answer is simple: they support discrimination overtly and covertly. Nice comment. There was no distortion of the facts — you spoke out and exposed the PS for what they are.
Thursday 16.4.09 at 23:07
Kosmos
I think you are right on track in suggesting it is Päivi Räsänen who is perhaps the biggest hypocrite here. She signed this statement against racism, yet she effectively breaks it before she even got her pen out by agreeing to an electoral pact with PS. At least with PS and Soini, you would expect them to shun anti-racist iniatives.
Tuesday 21.4.09 at 18:53
Richard
Nice blog,
however I am dissapointed and frankly disturbed that you use the term “Swedish-speaking Finns” as opposed to Finland-Swedish. The latter may be a bit clumsy but it’s still better expression to use for finlandssvenskhet, or doe find Swedish-speaking Finnishness suitable?
“Från början var det självklart att man kunde vara svensk i Finland. Då Finland blev självständigt var det politiskt befogat att använda finlandssvensk för att markera statstillhörigheten. Begreppet riksvensk användes för att hänvisa till svenskar i Sverige. Nu har det blivit opportunt att använda svensktalande eller svenskspråkig finländare eller finne (på engelska swedish-speaking finns, ej Finland-Swedes) och samtidigt antyda att det bara är frågan om språk, ett kommunikationmedel, som skiljer svensk och finne i Finland”. -Leif Höckerstedt, 2009
Carl O Nordling
“Less well known internationally is the 6 percent minority of ethnic Swedes in Finland. While we never hear of “Sami speaking Norwegians”, “Hebrew speaking Palestinians” etc., one often stumbles on the term “Swedish speaking Finns” to denote a certain group of ethnic Swedes. This is a way of denying the group their ethnic identity. Admittedly, something similar is practised in Turkey, where the Kurds are called “Mountain Turks” in official quarters”.
Tuesday 21.4.09 at 19:39
Jonas
Thanks for the compliment and for your interesting and thought provoking comment.
I’m sorry you find my terminology disturbing. I would say that finding the right terminology in English is not at all simple! Your comment demonstrates this very well! This is because as a group, whatever you call us, we are not very well known outside of Finland – even in the other Nordic countries. My choice of words ‘Swedish-speaking Finn’ is not made because of any political motivation. I do it simply for clarity. I have lived abroad and have found it the most easily understood by people unfamiliar with the notion that Finland is bilingual and has two language groups. It emphasises that we are from Finland through the use of the word ‘Finn’, which I understand in English to not have the same meaning as the Swedish word finne, despite the similarity in the way the two words look. Whilst I happily and proudly identify as finlandssvensk in Swedish (as you can no doubt gather from my blog entries), I’ve found that people unfamiliar with the concept of Swedish-speakers existing in Finland find the translation ‘Finland-Swede’ confusing – they end up asking you questions of the nature of “So, where in Sweden are you from then?” sooner or later in your acquaintance.
Whilst I agree with Höckerstedt (with the exception of his implication that you can attempt to directly “over”translate what works in the Swedish-language to English), I find Nordling’s statement more problem-filled. Of course it would be stupid to speak of Sami-speaking Norwegians, as most Sami do not necessarily wish to emphasise any Norwegian part of their identity; they probably think of themselves as Sami-speaking Sami
! This is not the case with us, the vast majority of Swedish-speaking Finns are proud to be from Finland (i.e. finländare). I see the English-word ‘Finn’ as equivalent to the Swedish word finländare rather than finne. In other words, ‘Finn’ is generally language-group neutral in English usage and donates anyone “of Finland”, just as finländare does. I would also state that there is no consensus on whether Swedish-speaking Finns are a seperate ethnic group to the Finnish-speakers or as to whether they are part of a common Swedish ethnic group. I personally have no firm opinion on the matter. I don’t particularly look upon the world in an ethnic manner. I do feel at least partly culturally Swedish – a part of a wider Swedish-speaking cultural word, but ethnically, I don’t feel any different from Pekka Suomalainen living up the street. I share much of his culture too and I, of course, feel he is my national compatriot (whereas Sven Svensson living in Stockholm is a foreigner). If we start to use ethnicity to determine who can be counted as a Swedish-speaking Finn, I think we will start to run into many ethical problems.
In answer to your question, I would not use the term “Swedish-speaking Finnishness”. I simply don’t believe you can find a one term expression to translate finlandssvenskhet into English anymore than you can with the word lagom or the Finnish word sisu.
I’d only remind you that my first language is not English. I’d also emphasise that I fully realise that there is no one accepted translation of finlandssvensk in English and thus any of the options I could choose would probably leave someone unhappy. My choice is based 100% on practicality and ease of understanding to the unfamiliar reader. It is absolutely not political.
Wednesday 22.4.09 at 14:21
Richard
Thanks for the interesting reply.
Anyway, few key issues,
the way I see “Swedish-speaking Finn” is that it’s simply derogatory term, a grose violation to de-emphasize the peculiar cultural identity of a Swedish ethnic group in Finland. It’s like going to 100 years’s backwards in history where double-alignments were prohibitet and majority wanted to impose common identity to every individual and ethnic group under its protectorate.
I don’t understand any concern over the english translation of Finland-Swedes. It’s consistent with terminology applied to national minorities such as Volga-German’s. Moreover, as said Finland-Swedishness is way accurate description of finlandssvenskhet than Swedish-speaking Finnishness. The knowledge of the term Finland-Swede will obviously increase while we use it. Moreover, the term is still applied in academic literature (See Hedberg, “Finland-Swedish wheel of migration”, 2005)
The ethnicity of finlandssvenskar is clear cut. It doesn’t mean that everyone who speaks Swedish in Finland will identify as a seperate ethnic group in comparison of Finns. Ofcourse not. No one would assume that a Swedish-language instructor in Rovaniemi will be a finlandssvensk. This applies to the offshoots of bi-lingual intermarriages. No one will automatically assume they will define themselves as seperate ethnic group in comparison to Finns, quite the opposite. Usually these bi-ethnic embrace the values of the majority at full pace. However this doesn’t mean that there would not be a Finland-Swedish ethnicity. It’s not the duty for those who belong in the given ethnic group to problematize with the concept. Karelian ethnicity still exist in Russia despite that knowledge of the language is dying and most of its speakers identify themselves as ethnic- Russians. It’s a choice of self-identification.
Whether Finland Swedes are a nationality, and not just a minority is more controversial issue. I personally go for the late professor emeritius, Tore Modeen in this one.
“In Finland this question (Swedish nationality) has been subjected to much discussion.The Finnish majority tries to deny the existence of a Swedish nationality. An example of this is the fact that the statutes always use the concept ´Swedish-speaking´ instead of Swedish”.
“It is not correct to call a nationality a linguistic group or minority, if it has developed culture of its own. If there is not only a community of language, but also of other characteristics such as folklore, poetry and literature, folk music, theater, behavior.etc”.
Tore Modeen (Europa Ethnica, 1999)
You obviously use whatever term you see fit, however I express my wish that you still consider the choice of using “Swedish-speaking Finn”. Finn has a clear cut implication to culture and language, whether in English or Swedish. We are not living in 1870′s anymore with artificial Finnishness forced at us. The border’s of culture/language are so much stronger than any artificial national border’s. Let the Swedes be Swedes whereever they are.
“Min egen finlandssvenska identitet är förankrad i hela den svenskspråkiga kustvärlden – den kringskärs inte av nationella gränser. Min identitet stärktes då jag jobbade några år i Afrika, där mänskornas identitet ofta bygger på en kulturell tillhörighet som inte följer de artificiella nationalstatsgränserna, säger Eklund som arbetat 15 år inom olika biståndsprojekt, bl.a. i Botswana och på Fidjiöarna.
- Vistelsen utomlands har gett mig ett nytt perspektiv på identitetsfrågor, kommenterar han”. Håkan Eklund, 2002
http://web.abo.fi/meddelanden/artiklar/2002_05_skargard.sht
Wednesday 22.4.09 at 16:21
Richard
Not sure whether my account was deleted or whether I screwed it up myself. Anyway, I try once more.
Interesting account Jonas.
1) I don´t see the term Finland-Swedish problematic from linguistic point of view. It’s consistent with earlier terminology applied to national minorities such as Volga-German’s. The more we use it more it will be recognized. Moreover, the term is widely applied in academic literature (See for example, Hedberg, “Finland-Swedish wheel of migration, 2005)
2) I view the “Swedish-speaking Finn” as highly derogative. It’s an attempt to de-emphasize the peculiar cultural identity of an ethnic minority in order to impose majority identity to all minorities and individuals under the protectorate of Finland. It’s like going hundred year’s back in time to Hegelian word of “one folk, one identity”.
3) Finland-Swedish ethnicity is very clear cut. It doesn’t mean that everyone who speaks Swedish in Finland will be part of it. Ofcourse not. It would be chauvinistic to assume that Swedish instructor in Rovaniemi would identity him/herself as finlandssvensk. Moreover, we cannot automatically assume that all offshoots of bi-linguistic intermarriages will view them as distinct ethnic group. Most bi-ethnic usually end up embracing the values of the majority.
However, this does not mean that Finland-Swedish ethnicity does not exists. It’s not the duty of those who belong in it to problematize it. Karelian ethnicity still exist in Russia despite most of the few Karelian speaker’s identity themselves as ethnic-Russians. It’s all about self-identification.
4) Whether Finland-Swedes are more than just ethnic group is open for debate. I go for the late professor emeritius Tore Modeen on this one.
“In Finland this question (Swedish nationality) has been subjected to much discussion.The Finnish majority tries to deny the existence of a Swedish nationality. An example of this is the fact that the statutes always use the concept ´Swedish-speaking´ instead of Swedish”.
“It is not correct to call a nationality a linguistic group or minority, if it has developed culture of its own. If there is not only a community of language, but also of other characteristics such as folklore, poetry and literature, folk music, theater, behavior.etc”.
Tore Modeen (“The cultural rights of Swedish ethnic group in Finland”, Europa Ethnica, 1999)
5) We are not living in the 1870′s anymore. Thank God. Dual-alignments are not prohibitet. The border’s of culture and language are so much stronger than some artificial state-borders. Swedes are Swedes where-ever they are.
“Min egen finlandssvenska identitet är förankrad i hela den svenskspråkiga kustvärlden – den kringskärs inte av nationella gränser. Min identitet stärktes då jag jobbade några år i Afrika, där mänskornas identitet ofta bygger på en kulturell tillhörighet som inte följer de artificiella nationalstatsgränserna, säger Eklund som arbetat 15 år inom olika biståndsprojekt, bl.a. i Botswana och på Fidjiöarna.
- Vistelsen utomlands har gett mig ett nytt perspektiv på identitetsfrågor, kommenterar han”. – Håkan Eklund, 2002
http://web.abo.fi/meddelanden/artiklar/2002_05_skargard.sht
You obviously use the term you see as the most fitting. However, I hope you still reconsider the usage of “Swedish-speaking Finn”. Your too blog too good to get disturbed by this little detail everytime I read it.
Best regards
Wednesday 22.4.09 at 16:24
Jonas
Thank you for your comments.
Well, I agree very much with Håkan Eklund which was what my remark about feeling part of a wider Swedish culture was meant to allude to (he manages to say it far more eloquently). But note, even he says Swedish-speaking coastal world, not just ‘Swedish’.
I am not interested in the debate about ethnicity that goes on still today in some quarters, academic included. I think it’s a completely out of date and discredited way of looking at the world. If you follow it too closely you are in danger of entering dangerous territory, one I hope that the world would have left behind in 1945. In any case, the ethnic origins of the Swedish-speaking Finns is far from clear cut. As it so happens, my family roots are by and large from what is today Sweden – but there are plenty of Swedish-speaking Finns who were originally Finnish-speaking but changed language groups in the dim distant past to get ahead and many, many who were immigrants from elsewhere than the territory of today’s Sweden and adopted Swedish rather than Finnish as their preferred language, something which can be said to continue even today (albeit on an obviously massively smaller scale). There are obvious examples amongst the most well known of us. I just wrote an article on the Stockmann department store, I believe Stockmann was orginally from the German lands. Mannerheim’s family has its origins in Netherlands. I think that Karl Fazer was an immigrant from Switzerland. Certainly these three examples are of the relative elite or town dwellers, but even in the countryside, I would be very cautious before saying that every Swedish-speaking Finn can trace his origins back to the then western half of the Swedish kingdom.
The meaning of the word ‘nationality’ is, I suspect, open to multiple different definitions in itself. I view my nationality as Finnish.
I don’t understand the comment about artificial Finnishness. I feel very Finnish. I am proud to be Finnish/finländare. I do not feel it something that is artificial at all. I am proud also to be a Swedish-speaking Finn/finlandssvensk. The two things are not mutually exclusive. I disagree that the English word ‘Finn’ has a language implication, at least not as it is used by the vast majority of people. It does not carry the same meaning as the word ‘finne’, as I described above, and so should not be considered a translation of finne but rather more as a translation of the word finländare. I don’t believe that most people share the same concern for linguistic identity as we understandably have in a bilingual country – this would explain the lack of vocabulary! I have lived in the UK, and I found saying Finland-Swede just confused people. They couldn’t really understand what it meant in practical terms. Most people are not like you and I, they are not up to date with the linguistic situation in Finland. This is unfortunate, but it is the reality. I am a realist. This is the basis of my choice of word. I would state that I have absolutely no problem with the form ‘Finland-Swede’, I’ve just found that unfamiliar people find it more oblique.
Wednesday 22.4.09 at 16:29
Jonas
Oh sorry, no, you didn’t screw up. Sometimes things get trapped in the moderation queue for reasons I don’t fully understand
.
Hopefully I answered your points already in my reply (which I wrote before discovering your second reply – apologies that you had to write it all out again!).
Wednesday 22.4.09 at 21:44
Richard
Thanks for the rerply,
ethnicity does not imply some genetic connection or even roots as such, ofcourse it may include those aspects as well. But I think you are not really acquinted with the term, and that’s why you are confused.
Moreover, your account of Finnish-origins among Finland-Swedes was stupid. Or should we take some multi-ethnic urban population of Helsingfors as the ultimate reference group for Finland-Swedishness. With that criteria we have never had Swedes in Stockholm or Gothenburg.
The Finnish origins, nothing wrong with it, is mostly just a myth, something to make Finns having felt being part of the “club”, to compensate the low national self-confidence of Finns, that is. Overwhelming majority of Swedes in Finland and Sweden are descended of Swedes, simply as that. Although the bi-ethnic intermarriages have become popular after the WW2, the founding population of Finland-Swedes is Swedes, and like every ethnicity Finland-Swedes have assimilated foreigners. We cannot make a case of Finland-Swedes based on some individual’s ancestry.
Interesting study about Ostrobotnians, who make 50% of Finland-Swedes.
“Clear East-West duality was observed when the Finnish individuals were clustering using Geneland. Individuals from the Swedish-speaking part of Ostrobotnia clustered with Sweden when a joint analysis was performed on Swedish and Finnish autosomal genotypes”.
Population Genetic Association and Zygosity testing on preamplified Dna. 2008.
Finland has done nothing do deserve the aligment of Finland-Swedes. It’s exactly the opposite. Finland has turned into a state which is in constant state of juridical nihilism in regards to national minorities.
”På alla plan skall Svenskfinland som alltmera bleknat till en abstrakt vision göras till ett mentalt och kulturellt landskap i Sverige” Professor, Bo Lönnqvist, HBL, 19.11, 2008.
Wednesday 22.4.09 at 22:38
Jonas
Well, I don’t see how it can be stupid when it is not so far away to what you have just said, but phrased differently and perhaps, I admit, less clearly (unless your summary is also stupid?). I myself said:
“Certainly these three examples are of the relative elite or town dwellers, but even in the countryside, I would be very cautious before saying that every Swedish-speaking Finn can trace his origins back to the then western half of the Swedish kingdom.”
Obviously, I realise that the vast majority of Swedish-speaking Finns are not living in Helsingfors and I would absolutely NOT judge the Swedish-speaking Finns (and certainly NOT wish to be judged) by the Swedish-speaking population there. But, some do live in the capital and some are certainly not originally from what is today Sweden, both in the capital and out. I myself am from the “countryside” and am certainly probably highly ethnically of Sweden several hundred years back. Of course, I agree that most Swedish-speaking Finns have their origins in Sweden. But, why that should mean we define ourself as Swedes to an English-speaking audience is beyond me. Why? Because to most English-speaking people, it’s simply confusing. They think, “oh, so you’re from Sweden”. Again, I underscore my rational as being purely for ease of comprehension – nothing more.
I don’t think I am confused as to what ethnicity is at all. Nor do I think that you are. I suspect we just have a different understanding of it and I would certainly say we have a different understanding of its importance. I just absolutely disagree that one’s identity should be based upon it. That idea may work for some biologists, social darwinists and other academics, but it’s not how most people in the real world think – at least not here in Nyland, I can not speak for Österbotten – in many ways, Svenskfinland never has been a homogeneous entity, in that way it is very manmade. I am sure if you took my DNA and run a scan on it, you may well find that it has more in common with the average person living in Umeå than Uleåborg (although, I am not at all certain that would be the case) – but that has very little to do with how I see myself. Very many Australians are probably ethnically English, but I don’t think you’d find many that today would claim an English identity. On the other hand, they may well admit that they share many cultural traits with the English, but without being English. That is much how I feel about Sweden. I would say that Professor Bo Lönnqvist’s quote strongly suggests he lives in an academic bubble and far away from the reality of everyday life. I would not call it derogative, as you call the term Swedish-speaking Finn, but I could very well see that some Swedish-speaking Finns/Finland-Swedes (whichever you prefer, it means the same in my mind
) might find the suggestion that they should not think of themselves as Finnish (as in finländare, not linguistically Finnish) but as living in some external Sweden-beyond-Swedish borders somewhat unpatriotic.
Identity is a complex matter (as perhaps our conversation shows). But, I think it is best left for academics to over-read things into the difference between Finland-Swede and Swedish-speaking Finn when used in the English language. As I said above, I don’t mind either term. I am happy for anyone to describe me as a Finland-Swede in English if they so wish. I would happily use it myself. It does not trouble me in the slightest way, as when used in English, I can not see any difference beyond the very, very slightest nuances.
I think we may be getting confused here though, in trying to overtranslate Swedish terminology into English and in imposing our cultural realities onto English language words. This is the crux of my rationale for using ‘Swedish-speaking Finn’. The average, unacquainted person is less likely to be confused by it than ‘Finland-Swede’. That is the only reason I choose it. There is absolutely no political agenda behind it!! I fear you maybe seeing a devil that is not there. I absolutely do not use it to bow to some kind of political correctness to appease any possible Finnish-speaker with a chip on his/her shoulder who may be reading this. Read some of my other posts, you will soon see that! I suspect that you and I would most likely agree on almost anything else other than this matter – and I suspect that our disagreement here is actually rather invisible to most not as concerned with verbiage as yourself.
Wednesday 22.4.09 at 23:12
Calle Shamrock
Hi from Dublin. I’m on exchange from Åbo to Trinity College Dublin university. I personally find it really hard to get any Irish people here to understand that I am not from Sweden. As soon as they know you for speaking Swedish they think you are from Sweden. You can say FinlandSwede, you can say Swedish-speaking Finn, it doesn’t matter. I normally go with saying “I am from Finland but I speak Swedish”. This still confuses them, which I don’t really get, as they are supposed to have 2 languages here. Is it hard to understand that not all countries have 1 language? I don’t think there is really any words that work straight off with most Irish people. After a few Guinness they still ask you what the nightlife is like in Stockholm and if Swedish girls really are as hot as in the movies. Sigh. The only way is the full on lecture about history and minorities and blah and blah. I guess that’s why Kulturfonden is so happy to give scholarships for exchange students, they realize we will act like free commercials and teachers for Svenskfinland.
On PS, I am making extra sure that I get my voting card sent here so I can vote at the Finnish Embassy here. I think it is really important that as many people vote as possible so that PS don’t win big time. I think they will if not many people vote.
Thursday 23.4.09 at 10:47
Richard
Calle Shamrock,
Most European countries are national states (one folk, one language). Such as Sweden. People always view the world through their own frames. Citizens of non-national states such as Belgium, Switzerland and Canada do not have difficulties to perceive a Swedish nationality in Finland.
Sweden f.e has been a national state for a thousand year, Finland has never been one. That’s why the consititution granted two equal language and a seperate church for Swedish-speaker’s. Also Swedish territory received some terrritorial protection, although the last remnants of it were removed from the constitution in 1999.
Maybe this article clarifies Finland to you
“Nationalspråken i samhällskontraktet” by Markku Suksi
http://www.vasabladet.fi/story.aspx?storyID=35427&highlight=suksi
“Såsom jag just nu ser på saken utgör kombinationen av individual- och territorialprincipen egentligen en grundstruktur i det “samhällskontrakt” som skapade Finland på 1910- och 1920-talen. Jag tror nämligen att man genom detta arrangemang undvek att definiera Finland som en nationalstat (ett språk, ett folk, en stat), något som bland annat i Estland, Lettland, Litauen, Polen, Ungern, Rumänien, Tyskland och Italien bidrog till uppkomsten av auktoritär makt och rent av fascism på 1930-talet. Om man inte förenat de två språkliga grupperna i en stat och betraktat dem som en sammantagen befolkning, hade man dragits med ytterligare en skiljelinje i samhället utöver den politiska som blottlades genom inbördeskriget”.
No matter what term we use about the Swedes in Finland, people have hard time getting it. However, most people get the idea of minority, hence if you tell that that I am from the Swedish minority in Finland, they’ll most likely get it.
All European countries, apart from Iceland, has national minorities. On the contrary, if you tell them that you are part of the “Swedish-speaking”-minority, they will be as confused as in the beginning. They will be thinking, “Why a Finn needs to speak Swedish language, why doesn’t he/she speak Finnish”. Swedish-speaking Finn makes as much of sense to them as German-speaking French. They just could never conceive it.
Jonas,
I wasn’t referring to any mythicl racial purity bubble as you seem to think. As said Finland-Swedish ethncity is the about self-identification. With your logic the concept of Karelian ethnicity is problematic in Russia. It’s not. No Russian official refers them as Karelian-speaking Russians.
Besides, again you fall in to cheap tricks. Most of Finland-Swedes are Swedish descendant even in Helsingfors, although having been assimilated lot of German’s, Russians and probably Finns. Just as in Stockholm.
Even the two former Finland-Swedish presidents are directly Swedish descendant and both from Helsingfors.
Mannerheim (Paternal family from Gävle, Sweden, moternal von Julin, Södermanland, Sweden)
Svinhufvud af Qvalstadt, Dalarna, Sweden.
Thursday 23.4.09 at 13:42
Jonas
Calle, Thanks for your comments. I would agree with you on the True Finns. I think it’s also important that every Swedish-speaking Finn home and abroad votes in the coming EU parliament election, if we are going to manage to maintain an Swedish-speaking Finn in the EU parliament. Ironically though, for that, a low overall turn out would probably help (a blog post on this subject will no doubt materialise sooner or later…). Thank you for also getting this debate back on to the correct subject.
But yes, I can imagine your frustration. I have experienced the same thing both whilst living abroad and with foreigners. Such is life. But yes, it is surprising that the Irish don’t find it easier considering they themselves live in a bilingual country. It is good that Kulturfonden is supportive of our students. Good luck with the rest of your exchange year!
Richard, my logic does not assume a one size fits all policy. Once again, what you fail to seem to grasp is that I am not interested in ethnicity or defining what term in English should be used on the basis of what is most technically correct. I am interested in comprehension. That really is all – one day I hope that we will be as well known as, e.g., the ‘French Canadians’ or the ‘Swiss Germans’ and the decision on English terminology will have been made for me. But I am a realist, it’s not going to happen. Once again, you again seem to be reading something into my usage of the term Swedish-speaking Finn that simply is not there. Your pesistance is, however, admirable, I suppose. It is unfortunate that your tone is somewhat rude as it makes my replies somewhat more terse in response. For this, I apologise.
In any case, I really don’t see what the percentage of Swedish-speaking Finns, be it 99% or 1%, who can directly trace themselves to Sweden has to do with anything in 2009. If you are not concerned with racial origins, why are you so persistant in pursuing the point that, to paraphrase you, nearly all Swedish-speaking Finns originate in Sweden. Identities change. Swedish culture is obviously very close to Finland-Swedish culture, just as, for example, American and British cultures are very similar. However, because they are closely related and share much in common, it does not mean they’re the same thing – even if they may have once been. I have no doubt that 150 years ago, I may well (had I have spoke English) said that “I am a Swede”, but today our identities have become distinct whilst maintaining many similarities. Today they are ethnoculturally different. Only a few very right-wing members of organisations such as Finlandssvensk Samling would bring forward anything other than this – and I note that thankfully today that organisation is no longer as extreme as it was on its foundation (it seems to have largely been pacified through infiltration of moderates). The vast, vast, vast majority of Swedish-speaking Finns when using the word svensk effectively use it as shorthand for finlandssvensk or use it with a very strict linguistically defined meaning. That is how I use it, and the vast majority of everyone in my surroundings use it.
Personally I think it would be far better if you put your obviously good skills in argument and debate to use and took issue with those matters that are actual threats to the community rather than creating a debate over a matter that simply does not exist as an issue. Go on, have a go at Timo Soini. I think the issue of the emergence of racism in our contemporary political debate is a far more immeadiate and serious one.
Thursday 23.4.09 at 15:32
Richard
Jonas,
thanks for the nice compliments.
“Your pesistance is, however, admirable, I suppose. It is unfortunate that your tone is somewhat rude as it makes my replies somewhat more terse in response. For this, I apologise”.
I wasn’t enough clear on this one. I really fancy your blog, the only thing I am disturbed at is the choice of denoting the Swedish minority in Finland as “Swedish-speaking Finn”. The name does not convey the peculiar cultural identity of Finland-Swedes in reletion to majority.
Moreover, I have little tolerance for the common myth that seems to prevail among Finland-Swedish community, about the role of finlandssvensk samling and ancestry etc. The ancestry of Finland-Swedes is irrelevant but let say that I do not want to hear any excuses why the Finland-Swedish ethnicity should be controversial topic.
Finlandssvenska samling is a god given gift for the human rights of Finland-Swedes. I think your view on them reflect what has benen written in Finnish-speaking media. They haven’t calmed down a bit. Juha Janhunen has publicly addressed that the situation of Finland-Swedes looks good only in paper. According to him there’s minorities even in China with better conditions for their minority culture.
http://www.vasabladet.fi/story.aspx?storyID=12166
What makes me sad is that many Finland-Swedes still feels some insane infatuation for Finland. What for? In way this equivalent if jews embraced Eva Brown. Finland is not what it used to be.
“Den finlandssvenska självbilden”. http://www.fris.nu/arkiv2/Uppsats%20Den%20finlandssvenska%20sjalvbilden.pdf
“Den dominerande finska inställningen till det svenska och överhuvudtaget allt icke finskt, kan uppfattas som stundtals närmast militant intolerant. Landet för en allmänt restriktiv invandrarpolitik. Att den så kallade äktfinska rörelsen upplever detta som positivt må vara hänt, men detta kan ha haft viss betydelse rent samhällsekonomiskt”.
Friday 24.4.09 at 9:44
Richard
Damn, looks like my post vanished again.
Jonas,
thanks for the nice compliments, as said I really fancy your blog. The terminology in regards to Finland-Swedes just gets me disturbed. If anything “Swedish-speaking” is just more confusing than Finland-Swede for an international audience. If you want to be clear the best alternative is ofcourse “Swedish minority in Finland”.
I don´t care about the ancestry of Finland-Swedes. Finland-Swedish ethnicity is a matter of self-identification. However, I don’t have too much tolerance for these age old myths in regards to Finland-Swedes ancestry. Most of the myth have their origin in ideologically wishfull thinking, not reality.
Finlandssvenska samling is the god given gift for the human rights of Finland-Swedes. I believe you’ve take a view on them based on Finnish-speaking media. The organization has not calmed down a bit. Juha Janhunen has publicly disclosed that the situation of Finland-Swedes looks good only on a paper. According to him there’s minorities even in China with better cultural integrity.
One thing which conmtinues to amaze me is that many Finland-Swede still have some kind of perverse infatuation towards Finland. It’s like jews embracing Eva Brown. Finland is not the country it used to be.
“Den dominerande finska inställningen till det svenska och överhuvudtaget allt icke finskt, kan uppfattas som stundtals närmast militant intolerant. Landet för en allmänt restriktiv invandrarpolitik. Att den så kallade äktfinska rörelsen upplever detta som positivt må vara hänt, men detta kan ha haft viss betydelse rent samhällsekonomiskt”.
“Den finlandssvenska självbilden”, 2008. http://www.fris.nu/arkiv2/Uppsats%20Den%20finlandssvenska%20sjalvbilden.pdf
“Höckerstedt tar upp skiljelinjen mellan den så kallade kultursvenskheten och bygdesvenskheten och bekänner sig till det senare synsättet.Kultursvenskheten som företräds av den svenska eliten i huvudstadsregionen beskyller han för att i praktiken försvara den finska nationalismen “i anständighetens namn under begreppet tvåspråkighet”. Städernas svenska elit har spelat en viktig roll i det finska nationsbygget och vunnit personligt på det, som ledande politiker och tjänstemän i förvaltningen eller som affärsmän.Detta leder till dagens konflikt då staten blivit så gott som helt finsk och den svenska lojaliteten måste uttryckas på finska”, summerar Höckerstedt”.
http://www.nyan.ax/nyheter/arkiv.pbs?news_id=4912
Wednesday 29.4.09 at 1:02
Jonas
No, neither of your comments vanished. They were just in the moderation queue. I think because they have URLs in them, so WordPress gets worried. Sorry it took so long to notice – I was in business in Zürich and then stayed on for the icehockey world championship games v Norway and Denmark. Back in Finland and will hope to see the team beat the Czechs tomorrow. A match more of equals than the last two. Given the time of day, I don’t have time for a more considered reply just now with my thoughts. I will get back to you.
Wednesday 8.7.09 at 1:09
Jaakko Sivonen
Swedish People’s Party – proud to discriminate Finnish speakers in municipalities with a Swedish speaking majority.
Wednesday 8.7.09 at 1:29
Jaakko Sivonen
“Sweden f.e has been a national state for a thousand year, Finland has never been one.”
Finland is more a nation state than Sweden is. Nearly all Finland-Swedes consider themselves to be ethnically Finns, although Swedish speaking. Also, in Sweden there is a Finnish minority of nearly 5 % of the population. There has always been a Finnish minority in Sweden.
Finland was a part of Sweden for over than a half of that “thousand years”. Sweden was no nation state then: the Finns were some 30 % of the realms population… And in the height of the Swedish empire there were also many Germans, Estonians and Danes living in the Swedish realm… Finland separated from Sweden in the early 19th century, but then Sweden acquired Norway and then the Norwegians formed some 1/3 of Sweden’s population…
You see, although not always independent, Finland has been a national entity, much longer than Sweden has. And even nowadays we are more national than Sweden is since we have a lot less foreigners.
Friday 17.7.09 at 9:43
Jonas
Can you give more details on how SFP discriminates against Finnish speakers in municipalities with a Swedish-speaking majority? As far I can see, during the last 50-75 years, there has been a very heavy level of migration of Finnish-speakers into formerly very heavily Swedish-speaking areas. On their arrival, these Finnish-speakers have more often than not demanded that the local existing Swedish-speaking populations adjust to the incomers’ Finnish language. This has transformed the character of large areas of the country, especially in Nyland. Don’t forget, until the 1950s, even Esbo had a Swedish-speaking majority. Today, it is Swedish-speakers, who are often the longer established population, who have problems getting services in their language and not Finnish speakers. An 80 year old Swedish speaking pensioner who may have lived in Esbo all their life and have deep roots in the area will almost certainly have a harder time getting municipal services such as health care in his or her language than a Finnish-speaker who moved from Savo just last week.
I ask you this, can you imagine if 30 000 Swedish-speakign Finns decided to move to Joensuu? Do you suppose there that we would get very far in demanding that the locals and authorities adjust to our incoming language rather than the other way around? Far from the passive, albeit sometimes reluctant acceptance that is found in the rapidly ‘Finnicising’ areas of once Swedish-speaking Nyland, I’d imagine you’d get fighting in the streets!
Even in unilingual or Swedish majority language municipalities, I find it hard to imagine that a Finnish-speaking individual with no knowledge of Swedish would find it all that hard to access services. He’d certainly have it a lot easier than the opposite scenario. So, you see, it helps to try to see things from the opposite side before making strange statements.
As for which out of Sweden and Finland outdoes which in the ‘nation state stakes’, I will leave such nationalistic inspired debates up to you. I simply comment that a lot of what you say on the matter is heavily anachronistic and seems to rely on a logic that supposes that ethnic homogeneity is automatically the superior ideal, which is a thought-process that gets far too near to racism for my liking. The entire concept of the nation and the nation state is one that is relatively new historically speaking in any case.
Thursday 19.11.09 at 16:44
Evening Herald states Ganley represented the "far right" - Page 22 - Politics.ie
[...] national(ist) component of Libertas was the True Finns party. True Finns party – proud to discriminate Svenskfinland in English http://www.internationalfreepresssoc…ation-charges/ The True Finns are viewed even among the [...]
Friday 7.5.10 at 0:34
JP
Well, i think that you nig lovers (hurrit) are just happy when immigrants rape and do other harm to normal finnish people.
Tuesday 7.9.10 at 14:54
Mattson
I stopped by this page by accident–I was doing a search about what we in Minnesota call Swede-Finns. I don’t know enough about the controversy to know whether the term is appropriate or not, but I will say my great grandfathers on my father’s side both came to Minnesota from the Swede-Finn area, leaving from Körsnas. I don’t know enough about the political arrangements, so I will just say it’s interesting to read about the disagreement between the “True Finns” and the other political parties. In Minnesota, the “Swedes,” “Swede-Finns,” and “Finns” (quotation marks because they are all Americans now) maintained many of their original prejudices, but they still settled right next to each other in Minnesota. Yes, they loved each other’s company that much! My great aunt, who is Swede-Finn American (never used that term before), is buried in a Finnish-American cemetery next to her husband, a true Finnish-American. Sometime I would like to take a trip back to the Swede-Finn area of Finland where my ancestors hailed from. We still have family there that my brother has been in contact with, even with these more than 100 years between the two families. Could I venture the opinion that the “True Finns” sound kind of scary, as we say in our Minnesota English.
Tuesday 7.9.10 at 15:08
Mattson
Sorry about my mistake above. I checked and found I should have typed “Korsnäs.” I had the umlaut as the ö. I’m afraid we didn’t do too good of a job maintaining our Swede-Finn culture in Minnesota. We lost the language. Do everything you can to keep your culture otherwise all the generations that follow will be disappointed that you didn’t maintain it. That’s the truth, my friends!
Wednesday 8.9.10 at 11:34
Jonas
Hello Mattson, nice to hear from you. Yes, I think the True Finns party are also a little scary, if I may borrow your Minnesota English.
Korsnäs is one of the most Swedish-speaking municipalities in Finland. Still today, it is unilingually Swedish-speaking (in other words, there are next to no Finnish-speaking Finns living there). I am sure you know this already!
It is interesting to hear tales of how your ancestors settled happily together regardless of language group. I think is is very much the case that Finnish- and Swedish-speakers have many, many more things in common than those that differ us. I am sure this overwhelming similarities where even more apparent when set against the context of the multicultural mix in the new land they found themselves in. The fact that we are so similar is one of the reasons it is so sad when people try to create some kind of dispute or struggle between us. It is especially ‘scary’ when this is done to stir-up cheap, base populist sentiment to secure political support.
I hope that one day you are able to visit your distant relatives in Österbotten!
Friday 15.10.10 at 7:46
Kieran
I have family in Scandanavia and everytime I return there it is a little less Scandavavian and ALOT more troubled.
Thank goodness there are people willing to stand up for the beautiful culture and heritage of the Fin’s which is slowly being raped by disrespectful foreigners.
You can ignore the ethnic rapes, the robberies, the murders for so long until you yourself are the victim. It’s quite easy to sit on your soapbox and talk about tolerance and equity but these are only pretty words used to decorate the ugly issues associated with multiculturalism.
I hope the country I love and admire doesn’t go the way of the pompous and oblivious Swedes.
Sunday 7.11.10 at 17:19
Frank E. Stone
“fight against racism”
The ancient Greeks had a saying: “the gods will first make mad those that they want to destroy”
What is racism?
If you are against racism, then you must deny that you are a Swede, or a Finn for that matter. By definition a Swede or a Finn belongs to the white race. By definition. there is no such thing as a non-white Swede or Finn.
That is an absurdity, an oxymoron, a contradiction in terms.
So just by being who you are, you discriminate against the non-Swedes and non-Finns and all the billions of non-whites in the world, because you exclude them. They can never be you or a part of you. Your identity is your own and it is an exclusive identity, by definition.
What those billions non-whites have is their on identity, which forever excludes Swedes, Finns and other Europeans.
Of course, they all dream about the white woman, which is the ultimate tabu to even mention, in the moronic Political Correct swamp.
To deny them access to the white woman is the real grudge.
The destruction, the genocide of the white race through race-mixing is the true agenda of the movers and shakers behind the PC crowd.
If protecting one’s own race against destruction by defending its territorial and genetic integrity is racism, then racism is the most scientific, moral and advanced concept in the world.
Monday 8.11.10 at 0:38
Jonas
Frank, A simpler answer to ‘what is racism’ would be the contents of your comment. Quite shocking to find that there are people who hold views such as yours.
Is Henrik Larsson not a Swede? If not, what is he? Was Karl Fazer not Finnish? If not, what? Strange, strange worldview to have.
Monday 8.11.10 at 3:41
Frank E. Stone
Henrik Larson has Swedish blood from his demented, low life mother, but he is a mixed breed, therefore he is not real Swedish and never will be.
My strange world view was the normal, scientific world view until 1945.
The fraud that Franz Boas and his clique perpetrated upon the world, together with the military defeat of National Socialism opened the door to the PC swamp that you wallow in.
It is basically a Revolt against Reality.
It is mass insanity carefully directed by organized International Jewry.
It is a planned genocide against the white race through the importation of the Third World into the white homeland, the pushing of race mixing, diversity and such suicidal policies upon a population that is too distracted and disorganized to withstand this organized assault.
What is more they criminalize any opposition to this genocide through laws that violate freedom of speech.
Fools such as yourself, (if you are not Jewish I would call you a shabbaz goy, if you are Jewish than your mindless drivel is to be expected) would not recognize Reality if it hit them head on.
Such morons live in their own version of Alice in Wonderland where Reality is never allowed to intrude.
Here is the root of Evil in her own words, this is truly the Deadly Plague upon Europe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_a-25MhRuk
Monday 8.11.10 at 12:06
Jonas
Your comments barely are worthy of a response being as they are clearly Nazi and fascistic in their nature. Now, let us look back, what era came to an end in 1945 after a decade or so of genocide that may have discredited such a world view?
It is fortunate that such people with such views are a small minority. It is interesting that the internet allows them, however, to shout loudly.
Monday 18.4.11 at 17:54
Xenophobes votes soar in Finnish election | eats shoots 'n leaves
[...] may lie in an event that happened 16 April 2009, almost exactly two years Sunday’s election and reported by the blog Svenskfinland at the time: Today, leaders of the political parties represented in the [...]
Tuesday 19.4.11 at 0:38
Arminius
So according to Svenskfinland, it is a “sad development for Finnish politics” for any party to have any inclination to protect the Finns from colonization, dispossession, displacement, and inevitable extinction.
Thank you for letting the world know where you stand on the subject of white genocide.
Anti-racist is just a code word for anti-white.
Tuesday 19.4.11 at 0:57
Jonas
Arminius, I think I am going to have to refer you to my comments of 8.11.2010 at 12.06. Thanks.
Tuesday 19.4.11 at 1:00
Arminius
HERESY!
Each society has its own word for HERESY!
Communists called all HERESY! fascism. Fascist Italy called all HERESY! Communist.
Today, under the Politically Correct tyranny, HERESY! is called HATE! or “racism.” Nobody wants to try to deal with a point like the one I made, so they start demanding that nobody say it, just like any other tyranny does. They call people who speak HERESY! names.
You Political Correctness fanatics are playing a very old game.
When you call people names who disagree with you or scream Hate or racism, a.k.a., HERESY! it says nothing about the point we heretics make.
But it tells us ALL about YOU.
Tuesday 19.4.11 at 1:06
Jonas
Actually I have little time for over-the-top political correctness. I actually believe, as I think the English language expression says, in “calling a spade a spade”. If you really are in denial of the facts to the extent that you believe that a genocide is occurring in Finland, there is very little hope of engaging with you in sensible debate. Your latest entry rather proves that I think. It’s one thing to be anti-immigration, quite another to think that those who are not against it are supporting some kind of mass-murder.
Tuesday 19.4.11 at 1:08
Arminius
Genocide does not mean the same thing as mass murder. Nice try, though.
Excerpt from the Convention on the Prevention and
Punishment of Genocide
“Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Tuesday 19.4.11 at 1:10
Arminius
“Your comment is awaiting censorship”
Fixed it for you.
Tuesday 19.4.11 at 12:32
Jonas
No Arminius, your comment was not awaiting censorship. I do not control which comments WordPress decides to send to the moderation queue, but perhaps it picked up on some of the content of your previous messages?
Is it also ‘genocide’ when Finnish-speakers move in to, say, Sibbo? Has a ‘genocide’ taken place in Esbo in the last 100 years? Has ‘genocide’ occurred in the Americas as a result of European colonisation? Where do these things fit into your use of the word ‘genocide?’ I see you write from the United States, which Native American tribe do you belong to?
When what actually might qualify as genocide was occurring in the former Yugoslavia, was Finland wrong to take in persons fleeing that conflict?
As you can see, your throwing about of of the very strong word genocide troubles me.
Tuesday 19.4.11 at 20:19
Katolsk Vision » Timo Soini – ”sannkatolik” ?
[...] http://svenskfinland.wordpress.com/2009/04/16/true-finns-party-proud-to-discriminate/ [...]
Sunday 15.5.11 at 10:34
Max
Excellent blog. I just stumbled across while looking for more information about the actual platform of the True Finns party.
As a native English speaker, who is familar with Finland through my wife and her family, I thought I could add some perspective to the linguistic debate between Jonas and Richard. The fact is that the term “Finland-Swedish” makes no sense in English. I can respect the fact that “Swedish-speaking Finn” may be considered derogatory by some; however, that does not change the linguistic problems with “Finland-Swedish”. At least in the USA, the correct English would be “Swedish-Finn”. Yet even that term might not be appropriate for everyone.
From my perspective, this debate really seems to revolve around how each person defines their own personal identity. Are you Finnish or Swedish? As an ousider to this debate, it’s not my place to label your identity, culture, or background. All I’m hoping to do is make you aware of how native English-speakers will understand/interpret the different terms.
Finland-Swedish – This is nonsense and the English speaker will likely assume you are Swedish with a poor understanding of English. To someone like Jonas, it seems this termonology has great social and ethnic significance which I’ll never understand. Therefore, I no right to tell someone not use it to describe thier cultural identity. Just don’t be surprised when people don’t understand. Is your goal to promote a social agenda or to communicate?
Swedish-speaking Finn – Your cultural identity is Finnish and your native language is Swedish.
Swedish – Your cultural identity is Swedish. Where you live or where you were born is irrelevant.
Swedish-Finn – A Finnish person of Swedish ancestry. We will likely assume that you view your identity as a blend of the two cultures.
Hopefully this will help people who are finlandssvensk better communicate their cultural identity to English-speakers. And thanks to Richard for making me aware that I should be more careful with my choice of words as some people may consider the term “Swedish-speaking Finn” insulting. After all, I have learned the hard way that understanding words in a new language is not the same as communicating in that language.
Monday 16.5.11 at 19:48
Jonas
Hi Max
Welcome and thanks for your contribution.
I almost always use Swedish-speaking Finn simply because I have found that foreigners find it the easiest to understand. Someone from Finland who speaks Swedish as their mother tongue, just as you say.
I have personally never met a Swedish-speaking Finn who’d be offended by being described as such in English. I can imagine that there might be some, perhaps a very small minority. And perhaps some who don’t understand that the Swedish word finne and English word Finn are different words in different languages with different connotations.
I essentially agree with you 95% Max. The only think I would disagree with is that I’d imagine that most people outside Finland understand the word ‘Swedish’ in English to have some kind of connection with the country of Sweden.
Now I must go and watch the celebrations of our returning gold medal winning world champion icehockey team!
Thursday 19.5.11 at 22:18
Max
Hi Jonas,
Thanks for the welcome. I found the exchange between you and Richard to be both fascinating and educational. As I mentioned in my previous post, my familiarity with Finland comes through years of marraige. Which means even though my understanding of Finland is a lot better than most foreigners, it is still limited.
Being from the States, where assimilation is almost a government madate, I have always found the dual-languages of Finland to be intriguing. Prior to finding your blog my perception was that both Swedish and Finnish speaking Finns shared a common culture and identity. To paraphrase my in-laws “we’re all Finnish, some just speak Swedish”. It is true however, that my perceptions have been driven by the fact that most of my experiences in Finland have occurred near where you live, in Borgå/Porvoo. Had my wife’s family been from Åbo/Turku my outlook may be very different.
In regards to the word “Swedish”, it is quite possible that you are correct in most cases. As I thought more about it, I may have been reflecting my own personal biases and experiences with that one. For example, I’m Mexican-American, but my neighbor from across the street is Mexican. Most people living in the States would immediately recognize that there is a significant cultural difference between my neighbor and myself. But it is also possible that people in the U.K., Canada, Australia, or even people from less diverse parts of the U.S.A. would fail to make a distinction. I also failed to consider that today many non-native speakers use English as a second language to communicate with people from other countries.
Congratulations on beating Sweden for the Gold.
Wednesday 2.11.11 at 11:55
Confederate States of America
I can’t seem to understand why it is so many Swedish seem to have no problem with arabs running all over Sweden raping their blonde haired females almost without anything being said. Do you have yourselves so backed into a corner with this notion of “tolerance” you are terrified to speak against the somalis and arabs raping your women because to speak aginst it the “racism” word would come up. Are you so terrified of the word “:racism” you openly allow your females to be brutally raped and murdered? Swedish women even dye their hair black to avoid being raped. You have no courage to speak against mass crime committed aginst your people, but you have the audacity to criticise a political party for taking a stand to protect their own. You sound like some Somali or Arab immigrant writing to further support the free raping of Swedish females. I live in the USA, but even over here we here of the “atrocities” committed against Swedish females by Arabs and Somalis, interesting you are against a Party whose Platform would stop the brutalities currently being inficted in Sweden.
Wednesday 2.11.11 at 18:12
Jonas
Hello Confederate States of America,
Firstly, perhaps you some problems with literacy, but I am Finnish. This blog is primarily about Finnish affairs and not Sweden’s. This entry was about the True Finns party, a populist xenophobic party operating in Finland, not Sweden. The party actually holds quite a critical view to all things Swedish, especially the Swedish language. It has members who have been critical towards the deep Nordic orientation in Finnish foreign policy.
Which source do you base your ludicrous assertion that “Arabs [are] running all over Sweden raping their blonde haired females”? I would be interested to know. Do you actually believe that it is okay to generalise that all Arabs are rapists (or indeed that all Swedish women are blonde)? Is a rape against a person, no matter how despicable the act, really a crime against an entire people, a specific entire people? I could understand how you could make an argument for it being a crime against people in general, but not a specific nation. If a Frenchman rapes an American woman, you can hardly legitimately claim it a “mass crime” committed against the American people by the French, to further develop your odd logic.
Friday 4.11.11 at 21:06
Confederate States of America
Jonas,
Firstly, my families have been here in the States for quite awhile; however, they were from Europe so I retain a sense of attachment for my home soil. That being said, I’m pro all of Scandanavia. I’ll provide the information you requested. After reading it, you’ll probably have a better understanding of my post above. It’s nothing personal, but engaging in endless dialogue about “tolerance” and so forth only shields those who commit the kind of horrendous crimes you will read about in a moment..I’ve read so much about incidents similar to the below, and almost nothing whatsoever is condemed about it, let alone solutions put forward, when I heard of the True Finns Party, they are a source of inspiration. Their Platform I fully agree with, and I wish them great continuing success.
It is basically the same Platform I hope meets with continuing success in Sweden, to protect Sweden for Swedish people. It is difficult to understand people being so pre-occupied with the notion of “tolerance” to stand idly by while atrocities are being commited against your people by foreigners. The Sweden Democrats, I also fully support, and agree with them completley, hopefully, their support will continue to increase.
Jonas, access “Dogpile Search Engine,” enter, ” Sweden Muslim Rape Gangs,” and the information answers about all of your questions above. The information speaks for itself. Information in my first post was fairly accurate. My use of “You” was not directed just at Swedish liberals, but anyone in EU or States who set aside the mass crimes and focus only on minor technicalities such as “bad words ” directed against a “race” etc., but say nothing about real crime.My apologies if my first post seemed a bit harsh. Take care, try not to be too hard on the True Finn Party, was good to hear you are Finnish.
Confederate States of America